Klingon vs. Minbari
Klingon vs. Narn
Hey Tyrel, decided to give your ships a whirl. Had one larger battle
started some big dispute over a number of issues which will be raised at
the end of the
playtest. Anyways . . .
Klingon Empire - 3325 (or so)
1x Vor'Cha Attack Cruiser
3x D7 Cruiser
4x B'Rel Bird of Prey
Minbari Federation - 3400
4x Tinashi War Frigate
Rules in use:
Fire declaration is not used; rather, each player takes turns firing all
weapons first by phase. Then other player fires his stuff.
Forces close, Klingons headed about speed 8 (BoPs @ 12). Most break
in a pincer
movement to protect their forward batteries. All are turtled (save for
have only 2 DEW).
Minbari open fire with restraint (8 oew or so only); BoP#4 is hit by 1
it's shield and takes some minor damage. A second neutron misses BoP#3.
Lasers fired @ D7#3, two hit. It looses its stbd shield generator and 1
and some structure.
BoPs 1+2 fire a pair of Photons @ Tinashi#4, doing 17 and 10 damage to
also fire about 8 Light Disruptors fired with 1 hitting taking out a
Other Klingon ships are defensive as they close to use their torpedo
D7#2 takes two NLs, only one hits. Destroying the foreward shield and
Lt Dis. Most
of the Minbari beginning arming a NL for sustained fire.
Klingons fire a flurry of photons, 3 Heavy Photons at Tinashi 4 and 2
1 heavy at Tinashi 3. Tinashi#4 takes hits of 33, 40, and 23 to the
NL, Thruster and NL respectively. Main thruster is destroyed this turn.
two hits of 24 and 18, both hitting EPGs. Tinashi#4 avoids the Mega
Disruptor from the
Vor'Cha, taking 1 Medium disruptor. BoPs#1,2 close on Tinashi 4 and hit
Light Disruptors from range 1 and cleave her aft off. One of the D7s
fires at the
Tinashi#3 with her Medium Disruptors and takes out a retro thruster
The Minbari in kind fire 5 FCs @ BoP#2, two # 4. BoP#2 takes 3 hits,
loosing her warp
drive and about 15 structure. A NL @ D7#2 takes out 3 structure and
Tinashi 4 is crippled, the Minbari move through the pincer and all of
them pivot to bring
sustained NLs to bear. It takes another Heavy and normal Photon from 30
28 damage. D7#2
closes and fires, and in the end Tinashi#4 looses her sensors, another
reactor damage (but no crits) + some weapons. She's now nearly crippled
target with the sustained NL. The other minbari hit as well. D7#2 looses
it's rear photon.
2 NLs hit the Vor'Cha plus some Fusion Cannons from about 15 out and
out the stbd
Vor'Cha reinforces her downed shield, the BoPs close in from behind. A
pair of them
put Tinashi#4 out of it's misery. A number of other fire is exchanged.
moves out of arc of one Tinashi, the other one hits her but encounters
so does minimal damage. At this point, arguements broke out.
Ship Status @ End of Turn 5 (undetermined victory)
Tinashi#1 - mint
Tinashi#2 - FC#9 dest; 5 rear structure damage
Tinashi#3 - Main Thrust + Engine @ 2/5ths damage. Fore structure @ 50%,
destroyed. Damge to NLs 1 + 3. Both Retros destroyed. Minor aft
Tinashi#4 - destroyed
Vor'Cha - stbd side destroyed; stbd shield: 7/50 port shield: 25/50 aft
D7 Cruiser#1 - I think any damage it took was minimal
D7 Cruiser#2 - Shield#12 destroyed; minor primary damage, fore photon
D7 Cruiser#3 - HPhot - 7 damage;LDis 7 + 9 dest. Phot#6 dest. Reactor @
thruster nearly gone, aft @ 85% damage or so. Port Nacel @ 60% dam. CnC
shield fine, stbd shield @ 4/25, port down, at @ 21/25.
B'Rel#1 - mint
B'Rel#2 - photon dest; warp dest; 6 structure remaining (shield: 2/30)
B'Rel#3 - 1 structure gone (shield: 22/30)
B'Rel#4 - 2 structre gone
Basically, at this point we got into a big arguement as already
of arguement were in a nutshell:
-strength of photon torpedo + relation of it's stats to Vree weapon.
-sustained vs Shields
-shield balancing abilities
-point value of ships
I was playing Klingon btw; Jason was playing Minbari. I should also
we were not playing with the rules that if the shield projectors are
shields that they replenish are also down. We forgot. However, in the
I don't think it would have been of relevance as it didnt really come
So anyways, I looked through my box and pulled out a new SCS. I
from two D7 cruisers and tossed them to Jason.
Klingon Empire - 800 points
2x D7 Cruisers
Narn Regime - 800 points
1x G'Qounth Heavy Cruiser
Both sides started to close, I think we were both @ speed 8 (we are
allowed @ speeds 4 - 8). G'Qounth deactivates rear mounts for 9 sensors,
locks 1 onto D7#1 and fires off
both torpedos. Moving forward she away, showing one of her sides.
split to fire at both incoming torpedoes. Either one or two hits her,
structure damage. Both Ions hit D7#1, which may have gone mostly
shield goes down and she takes a bit of internal damage. Maybe loosing
of her light
G'Qounth goes mostly offensive, shows possibly her front to the enemy
little in the way of return fire. 2 of 3 heavy lasers hit the now full
of the D7, destroying a Medium Disruptor, both shields and causing other
G'Qounth rolls huge init and beats D7#1, two more torps head her way.
to take them to either a side or rear shield (believe side). At least
the G'Qounth laser also comes to bear. She fires through the downed
to concentrate most of it onto the thruster destroying it. Other damage
to the engine, shield#13 and structure. No engine crits.
Both D7s respond in kind, causing more structure damage to both sides
weapons. Defensive fire however prevents alot of it coming through.
D7#1 is crippled and heading off the board; she deactivates the
weaponary to deal with the huge turn and decel costs. She is effectively
out of the
fight for the moment. D7#2 fires her Heavy Photon, the G'Qounth
and manuevers such that it is directly west of the launch hex. This
for every secondary weapon to be brought to bear. In total, the to hit
reduced from 19 to 1. The Klingons roll a 19 and miss. Both ships use
to recharge their armaments.
The G'Qounth moves north, still at 8. The D7 on her tail about 15
is coming about to bring batteries HL 1,2,3 to bear. D7 is aware of this
and is taking
a cautious approach somewhat to the east.
Narns use additional thrust to decel from 6 to four, they then turn
in the last
hex. Unfortunately they loose initiative and the Klingons move out of
of HLs 1,2.
Klingons have neither photon in arc, so the D7#2 fires Medium Disruptors
against the port
hull. HL#3 is destroyed. The G'Qounth in truth was trying to fire the
and the HLs
at the same time for a knockout punch, but it seems this wouldnt happen.
D7#1 is slowly coming around @ speed 2. She's about 30 hexes off.
G'Qounth fires her two Ions at D7#1 and manuevers to bring the
HLs to bear
on D7#2. Both Ions hit, but because of the mistake in rules it only
to I believe the Heavy Photon (still recharging). Both Heavy Lasers and
minor secondary armament hit D7#2 causing substantial damage to the
knocking out two Disruptors, 80% of the structure and damaging the
The D7 is
still recharging her photons, and the charge armament is out of arc to
G'Qounth manuevers behind D7#2, secondary armament removes the shields
HL#4 fires into the rear. The Thruster is all but destroyed, outlet
to either Nacel and aft structure takes about 35% damage. At this point,
was called due to time.
Ship Status @ End (Narn Victory)
G'Qounth Attack Cruiser
HL#3, LPC#7, TA#12 destroyed; Stbd Thr @ 8 damage (no crit)
Stbd structure @ 22/70 damaged. Port structure @ 50/70 damaged.
D7 Cruiser #1
LDis#7,8 MDis#4, Shields #11,12 all dest; Thruster dest. Shield#13 @ 4
Engine @ 6/12 damage. Fore structure 21/30 dest. Aft @ 2 damage.
Shields: Fore 22/25 (though should be down) Port: 4/25 Stbd: 13/25
D7 Cruiser #2
MDis#2,3 dest. HPhot @ 7 dam. Main Thrust at 1 box left (outlet
Either Nacel @ 5 dam ea
Fore structure @ 22/30 destroyed. Aft @ 14 dest
Shields: Fore: 25/25 Port: 11/25 Stbd: 25/25 Aft: 0/25
Quick Question -
Do impulse drives ignore the first effiency crit like Gravitic Drives?
Matters of Concern
Jason is of the opinion that these are quite frankly overpowered; due
like nature the firing ship can devote hordes of EW and get huge to hit
in massive damage combined with the X system. He believes either that
do less damage; or adopt a range penalty similar to what the Vree
Antimatter Torps employ.
I'm of the opinion that Jason simply didnt concentrate and commit his
fire. My torpedo
range was cut in half vs the Minbari and I had little hope of hitting
yet he still held back OEW and failed to make contact with his targets
his heavier weaponary. At battles end (first battle) his ships were
in fairly good
condition. I can see his point about them possibly being a little
at the same
time if that's how you feel Star Trek portrays them then so be it.
should have a range penalty is up for debate. He also suggested even
bonus' to hit on the Fire Control to +1 or something piddly. *shrug*
Jason has gripes with these as well; he either thought that
too high or that the amount that you could transfer between shields was
thought that perhaps you could replenish a shield up to half of it's
instead of just throwing it all into the shield nearest the enemy.
He furthermore thought that Sustained weapons such as neutron lasers
the shield on the second turn of firing. Pointing reference to phaser
saw during the series were a sustained burst eventually killed a target.
words, my Vor'Cha for instance took NLs to her stbd shield and lost it.
They were sustained.
He thought that I should not be able to move or replenish my stbd
thought I could turn into the beam (or away from it) and bring a fresh
shield to bear.
Again, I thought due to a lack of concentrated fire he allowed me to
shields several times, most notably on the B'Rels.
I do like his sustained fire idea but that's up for review.
Jason also generally thought that the D7s were perhaps underpointed.
Analysis of Battle#1
Basically I thought Jason made several errors. He didnt fully commit
himself to firing
at range when he had no chance of suffering retribution. He changes his
frequently and didnt concentrate fire. He also readily closed the range.
he did kill a D7 and severely damaged both a B'Rel and to an extent the
Vor'Cha. I felt
that at that point the battle was still undecided. But he felt the power
would rule the day. He was most upset by his constant hitting to shields
Analysis of Battle#2
In my opinion, this is how the battle went. Forces closed, the Narns
played well and
in their first Alpha crippled one of the D7 by battle damage. The
the remaining D7 then danced to bring their recharged weapons to bear at
which point the
second D7 was badly mauled.
In Jasons view, the Narns fluked off by concentrating a lot of damage
thruster of D7 instead of to Nacels or other non-essentials. He felt
the playtest because his ship was effective a non-combatant of several
at that point the second D7 was outmatched. He furthermore said "well,
is a good ship for 800 points. But how would a D7 do against a different
400 point ship??".
(In other words, I dont believe the results, let's do it again).
I felt that both the Klingons and Narns were played well. Due to the
lower number of
units, each side was able to pay more attention to the details of
manuevering. The Narns
on many occasions lost initiative but did win at several key moments. I
felt the loss
of the thruster was merely part of the game, the D7's weakness being a
reliance on one
thruster. The Narns didnt achieve the Ion - 3 HLs knockout punch they
wanted to destroy
the second D7 but still managed to effectively win with relatively minor
damage. But as
I stated, Jason felt it was due to luck.
But if that is the case, looking at the G'Qounth. It didnt even loose
D7#1 remained in combat would the Klingons have won? The Klingons also
use their rear Photon. Which may or may not be of significance. The
to intercept fairly well.